Faith v Religion
This is the station that my train-of-thought has taken me. Join me here and I will fill you in on where I’ve been:
Firstly, I read a short story by science fiction author Harry Harrison. Some of the best science fiction will provoke discussion, and this story certainly provoked me to discussion (with myself). In ‘The Streets of Ashkelon’, an alien race (of the noble savage type) is visited by a Priest and a Trader (just a regular guy). The end result of the story is that in trying to understand what the Priest is teaching, the natives sin - spoiling their natural ‘purity’.
Now the argument of the aliens is that belief in God needs proof. Proof He exists, that He cares, that He is watching. And the priest gives the regular arguments that tend to be given by fictional characters in these situations. That “creation is proof” but that “belief needs no proof - if you have faith”. These arguments are not the point of this post. Better and smarter people whom I admire have argued both sides for longer than I have lived.
What got me thinking though was the insistence of the aliens that they needed proof. For many years I didn’t think I needed proof, for much the same simple reasons that the Priest gave. And for years I had the conflicting idea that I had the proof I needed anyway if anyone should ask - creation. The reason that this idea conflicts is that the proof was really for me. I never felt comfortable with blind faith - although the idea that anything but blind faith produces a sort of logical loop never occurred to me. That is, the two statements cancel each other out: by saying that ‘Creation is proof’, but that ‘Faith shouldn’t need proof’ you are fudging things a little.
Maybe to my credit, I was always looking for that one good moment that could finally give me ‘proof’ that God existed that I could share with the outside world. That it never really came is the reason I have so much trouble with religion now. See, I think I would like some proof after all. Faith isn’t enough to keep me going. I know this puts me back into my logical loop, but frankly I don’t know what else there is. Anyone that says they have pure faith is a) a better person than I; or b) lying; (assign to yourself as appropriate). Everyone else that has faith but is willing to admit that they also have their own personal ‘proof’ can join me here in the loop. That my proof evaporates quicker under my own doubts is my own problem - congratulations that yours is stronger.
Now we are getting closer to the starting point of this post. Until now my parent’s, friends, and church’s proof was enough for me. Sharing someone else’s proof kind of helped in dealing with the loop for a while, as my faith was based on a watered down proof that I got elsewhere - making my faith seem to me a stronger faith ( stated-faith minus proof-needed equals actual faith ?). Anyway, now that my faith demands proof, I’m waiting for the sign from God. What this story made me realise is why I can no longer accept other people’s proof.
When other people tell me that this miracle occurred, or that that amazing thing happened I can’t help but be sceptical any more. There are so many people willing to tell you that they have the proof, but no way of knowing who can be trusted. I could trust Joe Regularguy, because he has a website that tells me that Jesus’ face appeared in a bar-stool. But then I might also have to seriously consider David Icke’s theories about shape-shifting lizard men (who knows?!). So the Internet and other popular media might be a little unreliable. I could trust my family. I could trust my wife. But let me ask you - if the person you trust most in the world began talking about things you couldn’t believe in would you? Even though you trust them and love them? I know that if Mil declared one day that she had been following her horoscope for a month, and every day it came true - I still couldn’t believe it, and why should I trust her more about one set of proofs than another? In truth, she would never do this - part of why I trust her judgement - but honestly, I’m uncertain that I can accept any proof (of God) that I cannot claim to have witnessed myself.
So from this long thought-train I established some definitions. Now these are only my thoughts for today, so if you disagree, don’t berate me for being more than a fool - I’m still learning. I would define faith the same as the bible does - ‘being sure of things hoped for, and being certain of things unseen.’ I would then define religion as ‘those things that are done to prove that faith is not misplaced.’ Maybe this is simplifying things, but think about it. All the rituals of religion couldn’t possibly be done for God’s benefit - and it says as much in the bible. Romans 4:3 ‘What does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”‘ All our rituals would mean little to God - what he seems to want is belief or faith. It must be man that needs rituals, to remind and to guide. We must need religion to keep giving us the proof we need, when we run out of our own.
I hope God can understand that a little extra proof could help, and if He never gives it, at least understand those of us who can’t dredge it up ourselves any more.
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2006-04-02 at 4:35 am
It’s good that you’re being forced (in a sense) to think through all that you accepted by faith in what others have assured you is true. I believe, (have faith), that God is there. There is too much incredible complexity in creation and too much information in even the smallest life-forms on even the cellular level to believe otherwise. You can give this intelligence any name you choose, but he is still the Creator. I also believe that if you are as honest as you (and I), believe you are, then you will eventually come to a true knowledge of Him. I would suggest though that the heart of man is pretty dishonest and will look for reasons to disbelieve if he feels cheated by God, is afraid of God, or is angry at God. Be honestly sure of your own motives.
2006-04-02 at 4:37 am
A quote from Anthony Flew "If you walk down the beach and you see ripples in the sand, it’s logical to say that’s a complex arrangement of the sand that the waves produced. But if you walk down the beach and you see "John Loves Mary" and a big heart around it and an arrow through it, you wouldn’t think the waves produced it. It’s information with content. The biological information of a living organism is biological information. Nature can’t produce that. It takes intelligence to produce information. Whenever we see a novel or a cave painting or data on a computer, we know there’s an intelligence behind it. When we look at the four-letter chemical alphabet of DNA and how it spells out the precise assembly instructions for every protein out of which our body is built, to me that points in the direction of an intelligence behind it. It isn’t just complexity."
There is no end to the theories of those that want to put God out of their thinking. Theories like yours can be in my opinion cop-outs. For those that want to ignore the fact that the universe we live in is too fabulously complex for life to have evolved, and perfectly balanced for complex life forms such as man, there are many new theories about multiple universes etc. These and countless other new theories are able to be thought up. There is a veritable endless smorgasboard of ideas to enable us to avoid what our common sense and conscience tells us - that God is there.
2006-04-02 at 4:39 am
I think that one of the difficulties with growing up within a Christian family and being a Christian for most of your life, is that you can become deaf and blind to God’s presence. It’s almost like God becomes a hum in the background of your life and you can no longer hear Him. It’s like He is the sky - you know it’s there and it’s blue, but you don’t bother looking at it any more. God can become like that in your life.
I’ve seen it happen time and time again, and for many years I pondered why many Christians in this situation walked away from God as a result of not having proof of his existence or no sense of His presence. I didn’t know how to respond when many years ago, a Christian friend asked me why he couldn’t hear God and was questioning his faith. He began to doubt all that he had been taught.
If I could talk to him now I would say, "If you truly want God to show you He is real and to have a real sense of His presence, then be prepared for difficulties and battles. It is through these that God often reaches us - when we are at the bottom of a pit of suffering and pain, or loss and heartbreak, that we can let go of the preconceptions we have built up of who God is, and destroy the barriers we unconsciously build between us and Him."
Sometimes we build the barriers in a foolish endeavour to protect ourselves from Him and others, and sometimes to fool ourselves into thinking we are someehing better than we really are - to hide ourselves from the true vision of our fallen humanity.
Once those barriers come down, then God can reach through to you.
To knock those barriers down, can require a time of pain and difficulty, and it is through these difficuties, when we are free of hindrances and pretension that we can be open and true with ourselves and open and true with God.
But it takes a brave soul to ask that of God - to be willing to go through pain and suffering to REALLY know him.
Are you willing?
2006-04-02 at 5:35 am
It’s good that you’re being forced (in a sense) to think through all that you accepted by faith in what others have assured you is true. I believe, (have faith), that God is there. There is too much incredible complexity in creation and too much information in even the smallest life-forms on even the cellular level to believe otherwise. You can give this intelligence any name you choose, but he is still the Creator. I also believe that if you are as honest as you (and I), believe you are, then you will eventually come to a true knowledge of Him. I would suggest though that the heart of man is pretty dishonest and will look for reasons to disbelieve if he feels cheated by God, is afraid of God, or is angry at God. Be honestly sure of your own motives.
2006-04-02 at 5:37 am
A quote from Anthony Flew “If you walk down the beach and you see ripples in the sand, it’s logical to say that’s a complex arrangement of the sand that the waves produced. But if you walk down the beach and you see “John Loves Mary” and a big heart around it and an arrow through it, you wouldn’t think the waves produced it. It’s information with content. The biological information of a living organism is biological information. Nature can’t produce that. It takes intelligence to produce information. Whenever we see a novel or a cave painting or data on a computer, we know there’s an intelligence behind it. When we look at the four-letter chemical alphabet of DNA and how it spells out the precise assembly instructions for every protein out of which our body is built, to me that points in the direction of an intelligence behind it. It isn’t just complexity.”
There is no end to the theories of those that want to put God out of their thinking. Theories like yours can be in my opinion cop-outs. For those that want to ignore the fact that the universe we live in is too fabulously complex for life to have evolved, and perfectly balanced for complex life forms such as man, there are many new theories about multiple universes etc. These and countless other new theories are able to be thought up. There is a veritable endless smorgasboard of ideas to enable us to avoid what our common sense and conscience tells us - that God is there.
2006-04-02 at 5:39 am
I think that one of the difficulties with growing up within a Christian family and being a Christian for most of your life, is that you can become deaf and blind to God’s presence. It’s almost like God becomes a hum in the background of your life and you can no longer hear Him. It’s like He is the sky - you know it’s there and it’s blue, but you don’t bother looking at it any more. God can become like that in your life.
I’ve seen it happen time and time again, and for many years I pondered why many Christians in this situation walked away from God as a result of not having proof of his existence or no sense of His presence. I didn’t know how to respond when many years ago, a Christian friend asked me why he couldn’t hear God and was questioning his faith. He began to doubt all that he had been taught.
If I could talk to him now I would say, “If you truly want God to show you He is real and to have a real sense of His presence, then be prepared for difficulties and battles. It is through these that God often reaches us - when we are at the bottom of a pit of suffering and pain, or loss and heartbreak, that we can let go of the preconceptions we have built up of who God is, and destroy the barriers we unconsciously build between us and Him.”
Sometimes we build the barriers in a foolish endeavour to protect ourselves from Him and others, and sometimes to fool ourselves into thinking we are someehing better than we really are - to hide ourselves from the true vision of our fallen humanity.
Once those barriers come down, then God can reach through to you.
To knock those barriers down, can require a time of pain and difficulty, and it is through these difficuties, when we are free of hindrances and pretension that we can be open and true with ourselves and open and true with God.
But it takes a brave soul to ask that of God - to be willing to go through pain and suffering to REALLY know him.
Are you willing?